The Odyssey

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Tembo Chinook on March 25, 2009 at 5:10pm

Thanks, Ben

I did get introduced to the Odyssey in a horrible way in grade 8 or so and it didn't make any sense . . . but I blame that on the lifeless style of formal education . . . What kept me alive on that side was Shakespeare . . . but the Odyssey . . . I can say at the moment the big thing that I am noticing is that I now have the impossibly long time span of a 20 year initiation journey under my belt and I am feeling the moment of returning to the court that is in disarray and on the verge of collapse . . . in a way, I feel that I should KNOW something by this point, but I am realizing in my own slow stubborn way that the result of such a real journey of education really only seems to leave one with a sense of style, hopefully craftiness, toughness - resources, yes, but not in the dominant societies idea of resources . . . that in a nutshell is me and the Odyssey at the moment . . . oh yes, can slightly begin to understand how one might resist the call of sirens lately . . . I used to just think "well, that's obviously a myth!" Cheers TC

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Geoff Berry on May 8, 2009 at 9:01pm

Ah yes, the Wandering Prince. Don't worry, Ben, he's always lurking about in the background for all of us sojourning westerners to find at some stage. Trust that the way the tale works falls into place for you now, and forget any standards you thought your education were supposed to rise to - there's a reason for the way it is, although not a good one in terms of mythic insight. The crux for me (at the moment - it keeps shifting about, like Proteus on the beach, changing forms depending on life stage): the tension between absolute faith in the gods and the striving to strike out on our own, individuated from the rest of nature, self-reliant and prepared for any challenge, yet knowing that once they have made their minds up, the gods can determine our fates. What makes this relevant to me today is that the gods are so clearly still, in Homer's writing, personifications of nature. So, Poseidon (as the wild sea) seeks revenge against Odysseus, while Athena (as the wild cunning of the self-conscious human animal, also a part of nature) seeks to protect him. Yet she still lets him suffer, as a test, and loves the way he rises to the challenge time after time after time... Combined, they are the archetype of the savvy, lying outrageously when necessary, honourable (within their cultural limits, like all of us) to the end.
That's not to say i don't have serious misgivings about some aspects of the tale - the way enemies are painted as barbarians, while amongst we honourable Achaeans murderous pillage against them is fine... but there is rather a lot of other worthy, adventurous, strike out against the unknown horizon type of action going on in there too! Thanks for bringing it up. ;)

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Benjamin Dennis on May 8, 2009 at 9:37pm

I love what you say about the nature personifications and how Athene is the "wild cunning of the self-conscious human animal," how she loves Odysseus, yet is willing to let him suffer pain and uncertainty. It lets us know that his relationship to the gods is beautifully complex and, if I read Homer correctly, much like all of us!

As far as the the "barbarians," I agree up to a point. I have to go to "The Iliad" to get more perspective. Seeing how Homer treats each side as blessed and flawed--each in the good graces of some of the gods, prone to failure as much as victory, and, even though there is a winner and a loser in the battle, accessible to the reader. I find that I can enter into both sides of the story and alternately inhabit Achilles, Hector, Odysseus, Menelaus, Paris, and so on, as the tale winds itself back and forth across the battlefield.

From there, looking into "The Odyssey" I find myself less concerned with the one-sided thinking, and more attune to the metaphorical implications. Polyphemous, for example, has been for me the television, the corporate world, the political world, and myriad extremism's, not to mention the various individuals I have met along the way. Odysseus' initial arrogance upon meeting the Cyclops, and his subsequent quick-witted escape beautifully mirrors the complexity in dealing with those entities in this world and the cost of not paying attention to the warnings.

I think I find myself going back to Odysseus most because of the incredible amount of trouble he gets into, and out of! After all, isn't it true that it is the trouble we get into that teaches us the most!

Currently I am playing with how Mentor lives in this story, alternating from the old family friend to being Athene in disguise. Athene/Mentor weave their way through the story, calling out the traps and bull-pucky, while at the same time supporting the growth and initiatory journey that Telemachus makes. It is lovely when Mentor meets Telemachus. Mentor does not simply acknowledge him as the son of Odysseus, due all of the rights and privileges. Rather, he looks him up and down and essentially tells him--"prove it!" Of course, Telemachus is up to the task, but the implication is that he may not be...

Thanks for posting here and I trust I will see you here again.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Geoff Berry on May 10, 2009 at 4:38pm

Great feedback, love the depth of your reading here. I'm going to explore the Cyclopian nature of the TV with my class today and see what comes up. And Athene/Mentor - i had mostly been thinking about it from her perspective, as the shapeshifter. But then, of course, he as the man capable of having a goddess speak through (as?) him... food for thought. And love the "prove it" challenge. All the better when it brings out the best in us.
Cheers, Geoff.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Benjamin Dennis on May 23, 2009 at 6:25am

Geoff, how did the class go? I am curious to see what your class came up with when these mythic images are associated with aspects of contemporary life.

I think this sort of dialogue is crucial in our society today. Being able to recognize that symbols and images have timelessness to them can be important.

I look forward to more conversation. Ben

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Geoff Berry on May 24, 2009 at 11:18pm

Hi Ben,
Well, as usual, class plans went out the window, and we never got to Cylopian TV - but it will come up one day, i am sure. We have talked about shapeshifting quite a bit, but the students aren't confident enough to bring any more to it than anecdotal stories yet. One related conversation quite a few are entering into, though - the nature of the muse today. Because they are creative writing students, this makes sense to them, so i can't wait to read the pieces they come up with exploring how this would look to today's artist. I talked mostly about Homer and Hesiod; we got onto the borderlands between human intuition and divine guidance, channeling and madness, trusting spiritual entities... i take a shamanic approach (or at least what i ascertain to be one): trust but be wary, test and challenge the source/s, do them honour but maintain your own rights in the process, forge a two way relationship with... the voice/s, animal spirits, guides, entities from beyond. Like some Arabs say: trust in god, but tie your camel.
Cheers, Geoff.

▶ Reply to This